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	<title>Comments on: Continuous Integration: The fluffy clouds of Zealotry</title>
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	<link>http://www.accurev.com/blog/2008/04/04/continuous-integration-the-fluffy-clouds-of-zealotry/</link>
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		<title>By: Liam McLennan</title>
		<link>http://www.accurev.com/blog/2008/04/04/continuous-integration-the-fluffy-clouds-of-zealotry/comment-page-1/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam McLennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have come across a few articles like this now, and the thing that always occurs to me is that I have never met any of these agile zealots. In many years of working with many organizations I have never met a single agile zealot - I have barely come across anyone who knew what agile is. Maybe Im in the wrong city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have come across a few articles like this now, and the thing that always occurs to me is that I have never met any of these agile zealots. In many years of working with many organizations I have never met a single agile zealot &#8211; I have barely come across anyone who knew what agile is. Maybe Im in the wrong city.</p>
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		<title>By: jsherwood</title>
		<link>http://www.accurev.com/blog/2008/04/04/continuous-integration-the-fluffy-clouds-of-zealotry/comment-page-1/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>jsherwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.accurev.com/?p=136#comment-427</guid>
		<description>You (Paul) make good points. As I see it there are at least two types of Zealotry that I am thinking of.

The first being those who are debating tradeoffs in decisions. For example is it better to adhere to a strict iteration timeframe and reject or revert issues that would not be completed within the iteration, or is it better to identify the highest priority items and allow the iteration to extend (for this item only) it&#039;s time to accommodate the priority? There are tradeoffs to either choice, and you may find it desirable to do both at different times.

The second type of zealotry follows the definition &#039;excessive intolerance of opposing views&#039;. In the case where you decided iterations are one month, any deviation from a one month timeframe means you are not agile, and should start over. As far as I am concerned this strict interpretation doesn&#039;t fit an adapting process like Agile. It&#039;s this second type of zealotry that creates problems, because it is unforgiving to those who are entering into Agile as a novice. It creates barriers and isolates ideas. To me, it&#039;s this type of Zealotry that is completely against adaptation, and rejects incremental improvements which is fundamental to concepts like CI, Agile and Lean Development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You (Paul) make good points. As I see it there are at least two types of Zealotry that I am thinking of.</p>
<p>The first being those who are debating tradeoffs in decisions. For example is it better to adhere to a strict iteration timeframe and reject or revert issues that would not be completed within the iteration, or is it better to identify the highest priority items and allow the iteration to extend (for this item only) it&#8217;s time to accommodate the priority? There are tradeoffs to either choice, and you may find it desirable to do both at different times.</p>
<p>The second type of zealotry follows the definition &#8216;excessive intolerance of opposing views&#8217;. In the case where you decided iterations are one month, any deviation from a one month timeframe means you are not agile, and should start over. As far as I am concerned this strict interpretation doesn&#8217;t fit an adapting process like Agile. It&#8217;s this second type of zealotry that creates problems, because it is unforgiving to those who are entering into Agile as a novice. It creates barriers and isolates ideas. To me, it&#8217;s this type of Zealotry that is completely against adaptation, and rejects incremental improvements which is fundamental to concepts like CI, Agile and Lean Development.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Keeble</title>
		<link>http://www.accurev.com/blog/2008/04/04/continuous-integration-the-fluffy-clouds-of-zealotry/comment-page-1/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Keeble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.accurev.com/?p=136#comment-426</guid>
		<description>No pure solution works in all cases, but lets be honest most projects don&#039;t implement unit tests, many projects don&#039;t use a continuous build that works and gets fixed immediately when it fails and most projects still write big requiements documents and hang their clients at the end of a contract.

Agile has a lot to teach, and is still being adapted and defined. The banging on the desks by Zealots is all about the practical aspects of Agile not some theoretical set of processes. I can&#039;t think of any article that doesn&#039;t list the benefits of what they are advocating, but I see a lot of projects not adopting, adapting and changing. Most of those teams that don&#039;t change think they are becoming more agile when they aren&#039;t.

But its OK, because if you don&#039;t change someone else will. When the guys that do it eat your lunch you won&#039;t even know what hit you. So good luck thinking its all good, because it makes their life a lot easier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No pure solution works in all cases, but lets be honest most projects don&#8217;t implement unit tests, many projects don&#8217;t use a continuous build that works and gets fixed immediately when it fails and most projects still write big requiements documents and hang their clients at the end of a contract.</p>
<p>Agile has a lot to teach, and is still being adapted and defined. The banging on the desks by Zealots is all about the practical aspects of Agile not some theoretical set of processes. I can&#8217;t think of any article that doesn&#8217;t list the benefits of what they are advocating, but I see a lot of projects not adopting, adapting and changing. Most of those teams that don&#8217;t change think they are becoming more agile when they aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>But its OK, because if you don&#8217;t change someone else will. When the guys that do it eat your lunch you won&#8217;t even know what hit you. So good luck thinking its all good, because it makes their life a lot easier.</p>
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		<title>By: John Wall</title>
		<link>http://www.accurev.com/blog/2008/04/04/continuous-integration-the-fluffy-clouds-of-zealotry/comment-page-1/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.accurev.com/?p=136#comment-425</guid>
		<description>Build useful products that solve difficult technical problems? What kind of crazy talk is that? Next you&#039;ll be saying that companies that use phrases like &quot;Web 2.0&quot; should try to be profitable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Build useful products that solve difficult technical problems? What kind of crazy talk is that? Next you&#8217;ll be saying that companies that use phrases like &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243; should try to be profitable&#8230;</p>
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